Practical AI
Narrative intelligence and the human advantage
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00:01
Welcome to the Practical AI Podcast, where we break down the real-world applications of artificial intelligence
欢迎来到 Practical AI Podcast，我们会在这里拆解 AI 在现实世界中的应用，
00:08
and how it's shaping the way we live, work, and create.
以及它如何塑造我们生活、工作和创作的方式。
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Our goal is to help make AI technology, practical, productive, and accessible to everyone.
我们的目标是帮助让 AI 技术变得实用、高效，并且人人都能接触到。
00:18
Whether you're a developer, business leader, or just curious about the tech behind the buzz,
无论你是开发者、企业领导者，还是只是对热潮背后的技术感到好奇，
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you're in the right place.
你来对地方了。
00:24
Be sure to connect with us on LinkedIn, X, or Blue Sky
记得在 LinkedIn、X 或 Blue Sky 上和我们互动，
00:27
to stay up-to-date with episode drops, behind-the-scenes content, and AI insights.
及时获取节目更新、幕后内容和 AI 洞察。
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You can learn more at practicalai.fm. Now, on to the show.
你可以在 practicalai.fm 了解更多。现在，进入节目。
00:41
Welcome to another episode of the Practical AI Podcast. This is Daniel Whitenack,
欢迎来到 Practical AI Podcast 的又一期节目。我是 Daniel Whitenack，
00:46
I am CEO at Prediction Guard, and I'm joined as always by my co-host, Chris Benson,
我是 Prediction Guard 的 CEO，和往常一样，我的联合主持人 Chris Benson 也和我一起，
00:51
who is a principal AI and autonomy research engineer. How you doing, Chris?
他是一位首席 AI 和 autonomy 研究工程师。Chris，你最近怎么样？
00:55
Hey, doing good today, Daniel, how's it going?
嘿，今天挺好的，Daniel，你怎么样？
00:58
It's going great, you know, the story continues.
挺不错的，你知道，故事还在继续。
01:01
There's ups and downs along the way, and, you know, very, very blessed overall,
一路上有起有伏，而且，你知道，总体来说真的非常非常感恩，
01:07
and really blessed today to have an episode that I've been looking forward to recording for some time.
而且今天真的特别感恩，能做一期我已经期待录制很久的节目。
01:14
Back in part of our journey as a company, we were going through an accelerator program
回顾我们公司发展旅程中的一段，我们当时正在参加一个 accelerator program
01:21
with Intel called Intel Ignite, and through that program, met our guest today,
通过Intel的一个叫Intel Ignite的项目，通过那个项目，遇到了我们今天嘉宾，
01:25
Reed Ferriks, who is a lot of things he's doing so much amazing stuff in his journey
Reed Ferriks，他身兼多职，在他的旅程中做了很多了不起的事情
01:33
from a new podcast that he has out in our story.
从他新出的一档播客到我们的故事。
01:37
He does leadership coaching, he's involved with MIT and startups and all sorts of things,
他做领导力教练，参与MIT和创业公司以及各种事情，
01:42
and has kind of a background in acting and in media.
还有表演和媒体方面的背景。
01:47
So welcome to the show, Reed, it's great to have you here.
所以欢迎来到节目，Reed，很高兴你能来。
01:49
Thank you so much, Daniel and Chris, appreciate it.
非常感谢，Daniel和Chris，很感激。
01:52
Yeah, yeah, and obviously that's, you know, I love your story because you've flexed
是的，是的，而且很明显，你知道，我喜欢你的故事，因为你展现了
01:58
into all of these things, you're always being creative.
进入到所有这些事情里的时候，你总是在创造。
02:02
I think in our experience together, I've appreciated so much how you've helped me think about,
我觉得在我们一起的经历中，我特别感激你帮我想了很多，
02:09
you know, my own journey as an entrepreneur, the story of our company.
你知道，就是我作为创业者的自己的旅程，我们公司的故事。
02:14
Now I know, you know, you're thinking about topics, of course related to AI like everyone is
现在我知道，你也知道，你在思考一些话题，当然和大家一样是和AI相关的，
02:20
and what our unique role is, you know, as humans in that,
以及我们作为人类在其中的独特角色是什么，
02:24
but we'll get into all of that, but I'm wondering if you could just share a little bit
不过这些我们都会聊到，我只是想知道你能不能稍微分享一下
02:28
of your story with us and kind of at a high level, how you ended up where you're at.
你的故事，还有从比较宏观的层面讲讲，你是怎么走到今天这里的。
02:34
Well, thank you. I find myself sharing this story much more,
嗯，谢谢你。我发现自己越来越经常分享这个故事，
02:39
and the best way to frame it is, it is a windy path because, you know, I look back
而最好的说法就是，这是一条弯弯绕绕的路，因为，你知道，我回头看
02:45
and you think like, you're always like taking like inventory, is this all working?
然后你会想，就像，你总是在做盘点，这一切都还管用吗？
02:49
Like, is this my story really making sense? Like, who am I?
就像，我的故事真的说得通吗？就像，我是谁？
02:53
Like, yeah, many times you ask these questions to yourself over time,
就像，是啊，很多时候你会随着时间反复问自己这些问题，
02:56
but actually it wasn't until that Intel program.
但事实上，直到那个 Intel 项目。
02:59
I was so, I shared this last month at a Harvard class we were teaching.
我当时特别，我上个月在我们教的一门 Harvard 课上分享过这个。
03:02
Basically, I was so nervous in that program when I first started
基本上，我刚加入那个项目的时候特别紧张
03:06
because it was so much about deep tech and engineers and AI was starting to really come up
因为它太多是关于 deep tech 和工程师的，而且 AI 当时正开始真正兴起
03:11
and I was going, oh my God, like, what am I doing here?
我当时就想，天啊，我在这儿到底在干嘛？
03:14
You know, I graduated at UT in business and I went off and had a acting career for a little while
你知道，我在 UT 读的是商科，然后去做了段时间演员
03:20
and then got into producing and media and startups.
后来又进入制片、媒体和 startups。
03:23
And I was kind of just trying to figure out like, you know, what am I doing around these really smart people?
我就有点搞不明白，你知道，我到底在这些特别聪明的人中间干嘛？
03:27
Like, like yourself, Daniel. I mean, it's like, you know, a lot of half the room was PhDs
就像，像你这样的，Daniel。我是说，你知道，房间里一半的人都是 PhD
03:32
and then we started talking and introducing ourselves and I started seeing pitches.
然后我们开始聊天、自我介绍，我也开始看各种 pitch。
03:37
I was running Dealflow when I first started at Intel.
我刚进 Intel 的时候是在负责 Dealflow。
03:40
And so I got to see a ton of pitches.
所以我看到了超级多 pitch。
03:42
I mean, we saw, you know, pretty much most of the top companies going in the US
我的意思是，我们看到，你知道，基本上美国大多数头部公司
03:46
would come through at some point and we'd meet them.
都会在某个时候过来，然后我们会见到他们。
03:48
And the one thing I kind of came away with one, I think I can help with story.
而我有一种收获，就是，我觉得我可以在 story 上帮上忙。
03:52
Maybe I can help out a little here.
也许我在这里能帮上一点忙。
03:54
I started thinking of their pitch a little bit like almost like a movie and I thought, gosh, you know,
我开始把他们的 pitch 想得有点像，几乎就像一部电影，然后我心想，天哪，你知道，
03:58
maybe I can contribute here.
也许我在这里能有所贡献。
04:00
So that kind of at least allowed me sort of the lane into this world.
所以这至少算是让我有了某种进入这个世界的切入点。
04:05
And then once you get into it, you start to realize like, there's just so much to it
然后一旦你进入其中，你就会开始意识到，里面的东西实在太多了
04:09
because founders are just becoming leaders and they're always becoming.
因为创始人就是在成为领导者，而且他们始终都在成为的过程中。
04:13
You're constantly learning and adapting, especially now.
你一直在学习和适应，尤其是现在。
04:16
So that really, you know, was sort of the ignition for me to really learn more about leadership coaching
所以那真的，你知道，在某种程度上成了我的一个引燃点，让我真正去了解更多关于 leadership coaching 的内容。
04:23
by own journey as a founder, which I was sitting there going, why is this happening to me?
通过我自己作为创始人的历程，我当时坐在那儿想，为什么这事会发生在我身上？
04:27
You know, all the things that you go through as a founder, but it's just evolves, right?
你知道，作为创始人你会经历的所有事情，但它就是会不断演变，对吧？
04:31
It's always evolving.
它一直在演变。
04:32
Yeah, I love that perspective.
是啊，我很喜欢这个视角。
04:34
I think I resonate so much with it because, you know, I don't think it's talked about a lot in terms of
我觉得我对此特别有共鸣，因为，你知道，我不觉得它在……方面被谈论得很多
04:42
how startups and entrepreneurship and those that are building tech companies that, you know,
startups 和创业，以及那些正在打造科技公司的人，你知道的，
04:48
ventures are in a big way how culture is shaped.
ventures 在很大程度上决定了文化是如何被塑造的。
04:53
And how people are shaped.
以及人是如何被塑造的。
04:56
And I think that's overlooked often in terms of, you know, obviously people are, you know,
而且我觉得这一点常常被忽视，你知道，显然人们，你知道，
05:02
I hope for a good financial outcome for myself and what I'm doing.
我希望我自己和我正在做的事情能有一个好的财务结果。
05:07
I think that's a reasonable part of it.
我觉得这是其中合理的一部分。
05:09
Sure.
当然。
05:10
But also there's a much broader story of why we're doing what we're doing.
但与此同时，还有一个更宏大的故事，关于我们为什么要做我们正在做的事。
05:16
And maybe that brings us a little bit to some of our topic about
也许这就稍微把我们带到了我们要聊的某个话题，
05:22
especially how that culture is shifting around AI specifically.
尤其是这种文化在 AI 方面是如何转变的。
05:27
But again, before we get into that, maybe you could just share a little bit about
不过，还是，在我们聊这个之前，也许你可以先稍微分享一下
05:31
a couple of the things that you're involved with now.
你现在参与的几件事。
05:34
Sure.
当然。
05:35
And like that storytelling piece, how has that evolved to connect with the tech world,
还有，像那个讲故事的部分，它是怎么演变到跟科技世界连接起来的，
05:41
with, you know, some of your current ventures?
跟你，你知道，现在的一些项目？
05:44
Great question.
好问题。
05:45
So where I am right now is I'm primarily executive coaching or leadership coaching
所以我现在主要是在做 executive coaching 或者 leadership coaching，
05:50
at MIT's business school, the Sloan Fellows Program primarily.
主要是在 MIT 的商学院，主要是 Sloan Fellows Program。
05:54
And then also with some startups usually right around the series A, series B level primarily
然后也会和一些 startup 合作，通常主要是在 series A、series B 这个阶段，
05:59
and now coaching their teams.
现在则是在给他们的团队做 coaching。
06:01
And it's been fascinating getting into coaching teams because you learn a lot more of the
而且进入给团队做 coaching 这个领域特别有意思，因为你会了解到更多
06:05
different perspective going on within the startup and kind of how people are feeling,
startup 内部正在发生的不同视角，以及大家大概是什么感受，
06:08
how they're trying to evolve as leaders.
还有他们如何努力作为领导者不断成长。
06:11
With MIT, what's been interesting is there's a lot of international students
在 MIT 这边，有意思的是有很多国际学生。
06:15
and specifically a lot of the ones I get, they all come here kind of wanting to be
而且具体来说，我遇到的很多人，他们来这儿都多少有点想成为
06:19
an American entrepreneur.
一个美国创业者。
06:21
So they're always like, can you, can you, can you help me tell my story like this?
所以他们总是会说，你能不能、你能不能、你能不能帮我把我的故事讲成这样？
06:25
They'll give me like a video or an example.
他们会给我一个视频或者一个例子。
06:27
And it'll be somebody, you know, probably really famous in the tech world.
而那个人，你知道，可能是 tech 圈里非常有名的人。
06:31
But, but I always find like that's such, like they have fear coming here.
但是，但是我总觉得，这挺那什么的，他们来这里是有恐惧的。
06:36
They're trying to stand out.
他们想脱颖而出。
06:37
They're trying to find their unique positioning.
他们想找到自己独特的定位。
06:40
But oftentimes when we get into their story, their story is so fascinating.
但很多时候，当我们深入了解他们的故事时，他们的故事真的特别吸引人。
06:44
It's usually, there's usually a ton of like obstacles for them to even get to, you know,
通常来说，通常会有超多像障碍一样的东西，让他们甚至要走到，你知道，
06:50
MIT, obviously, they come from, you know, a lot of backgrounds that, you know,
MIT，显然，他们来自，你知道，很多不同的背景，你知道，
06:54
took a lot of resilience, a lot of overcoming.
需要很多韧性，需要克服很多困难。
06:56
And there's this, all this gold in their story that they're basically trying to hide.
而且他们故事里有这种，所有这些像金子一样的东西，可他们基本上却在试图藏起来。
07:01
And it's so, a lot of the process is trying to extract out that unique positioning.
而且这真的，很多过程就是在试着提炼出那种独特的定位。
07:05
And that really is what has sort of informed, you know, what I'm calling right now
而这真的就是某种程度上塑造了，你知道，我现在所说的
07:09
a little bit around narrative intelligence.
有点围绕 narrative intelligence 的东西。
07:11
And it's really about how to like extract your unique self into your story and evolve it in real time
其实关键就在于，怎么把你独特的自我提取出来、融进你的故事里，并让它实时演进
07:18
because with AI, everybody's, you know, excited about AI, but also fearful of AI.
因为一说到 AI，大家，你知道的，既对 AI 很兴奋，又对 AI 很害怕。
07:23
And so there's this constant back and forth.
所以就会有这种持续不断的来回拉扯。
07:26
And so how do you continuously adapt is sort of what happens throughout all the coaching and work I'm doing right now?
所以，你怎么持续适应，差不多就是我现在做的所有 coaching 和工作里一直在发生的事情？
07:34
You mentioned, so I'm kind of coming in cold with you and Daniel have been through this experience together and stuff.
你提到过，所以我有点像没什么铺垫就进来了，而你和 Daniel 已经一起经历过这段体验之类的。
07:40
You mentioned narrative intelligence.
你提到了 narrative intelligence。
07:43
And could you, could you kind of take me through what that means a little bit?
然后你能不能，能不能稍微带我过一下那到底是什么意思？
07:47
You've referenced it, but I'm not sure I'm there yet.
你提到过它，但我不确定自己是不是已经到那一步了。
07:50
And then maybe kind of, and you also mentioned kind of the same breath AI.
然后可能，就是，而且你在同一句话里也提到了 AI。
07:54
And so could you kind of, like, what's the relationship or, you know, I don't understand at this point.
所以你能不能大概说说，就是，这之间是什么关系，或者说，你懂的，我现在有点搞不懂。
08:01
So I'll leave that to you on that.
所以这个我就交给你来说了。
08:03
So it's obviously artificial intelligence, you know, was sort of, you know, started thinking about it.
所以这显然就是 artificial intelligence，你知道，算是，你懂的，开始去思考它了。
08:07
And, you know, the more we were diving into some of the research and work, we started realizing like we live inside stories.
然后，你知道，我们越是深入去研究一些东西、做一些工作，就开始意识到，我们其实是活在故事里的。
08:13
So much of our decision making, our choices, everything's from the moment we wake up, we're inside of a story, right?
我们的很多决策、我们的选择，所有的一切，从我们醒来的那一刻起，我们就已经在一个故事里了，对吧？
08:19
And so I started looking at, like, you know, narrative intelligence.
所以我就开始研究，就是，你知道，narrative intelligence。
08:22
There's been different people that have looked at it.
之前也有不同的人研究过它。
08:24
It really, I think the one article I saw was back around MIT and Harvard, some different engineers trying to learn how to talk to each other.
其实，我觉得我看到的那一篇文章，大概是在 MIT 和 Harvard 那边，一些不同的工程师在试着学会怎么彼此交流。
08:32
And so they formed like a group around it.
于是他们就围绕这个组了个小团体。
08:34
So that led me to think, okay, what else is here given the current times with AI?
所以这让我开始想，好吧，在如今这个 AI 时代，还有什么别的可能？
08:39
And so as I started, you know, interviewing people and working with people, I started thinking, what could become more real time around like what could become narrative intelligence?
所以当我开始，你知道，去采访人、跟人合作的时候，我开始想，什么能变得更 real time，比如什么能变成 narrative intelligence？
08:48
Storytelling has its place, obviously, and for a leader or founder raising money, talk pitching a customer.
讲故事当然有它的用武之地，显然，对一个正在融资的领导者或创始人来说，或者跟客户 pitch 的时候都是。
08:55
But a lot of times storytelling, people get stuck in the stories and they don't evolve them.
但很多时候，讲故事会让人卡在那些故事里，不去让它们演化。
08:59
And so that's when I started thinking, like, things are changing for a startup founder every day.
所以那就是我开始想的时候，比如，对一个 startup 创始人来说，事情每天都在变。
09:04
And there's new information and there's new audiences.
而且总有新的信息，也有新的受众。
09:08
And how do you just continuously evolve it?
那你怎么才能让它不断进化呢？
09:10
So that's sort of where I started.
所以这差不多就是我的起点。
09:12
So I pitched it.
所以我就把它 pitch 了。
09:13
I did my first talk at South by Southwest last year.
我去年在 South by Southwest 做了我的第一场演讲。
09:16
And I was so nervous. I was going in there.
我当时特别紧张。我正往里头走。
09:18
I was in the green room.
我当时在后台休息室。
09:20
And I remember the guy from late Ted Lasso, if you've seen that show, was in there.
我记得 Ted Lasso 后期里的那个哥们——如果你看过那部剧的话——当时也在那儿。
09:24
And he's sitting there.
他就坐在那儿。
09:25
And I'm like, so nervous.
我当时就想，我太紧张了。
09:26
I'm like, oh my God, there's like people around here.
我心想，天哪，这边好像到处都是人。
09:28
Is anybody going to show up in my room, you know?
会有人来我这个房间吗，你懂吧？
09:31
So I had like, this was a new format they started this past year called core conversation.
所以，这是他们过去这一年新搞的一种形式，叫 core conversation。
09:36
So I was really excited.
所以我特别兴奋。
09:37
But I really didn't know if anybody was going to show up.
但我真的不知道会不会有人来。
09:39
So I started peeking outside the door going, gosh, I wonder if anybody's going to show up in this room.
于是我开始往门外偷看，心里嘀咕，天哪，不知道会不会有人来这个房间。
09:43
And luckily it was sold out.
幸好，结果满座了。
09:45
It was like 50 people.
大概有 50 个人。
09:46
So I'm not talking like a 400 person theater.
所以我说的不是那种能坐 400 人的剧院。
09:49
But it was a really good conversation.
但那真的是一次很棒的对话。
09:52
A lot of interesting perspectives, questions, curious about what you were just asking.
很多有意思的观点、问题，大家对你刚才问的东西也很好奇。
09:57
What is this narrative intelligence and how you, you know, coaching it?
这个 narrative intelligence 到底是什么，以及你，你知道，是怎么去 coaching 它的？
10:00
And so what it really came out of all of that is people are afraid about the future.
所以从这一切里真正得出来的是，人们在害怕未来。
10:05
They're trying to, a lot of them are in transitions from one career.
他们正在尝试，很多人正处在从一个职业转型的过程中。
10:09
We had one guy there.
我们那儿有一个人。
10:10
It was one of the top guys at NASA.
那是 NASA 的高层之一。
10:12
And he was like, I'm trying to change my career now.
然后他说，我现在正试着转行。
10:15
And I'm trying to transition in this next stage of life.
我想在人生的下一个阶段完成转变。
10:17
And so what it really told me was it's kind of like the classics heroes journey.
所以他真正告诉我的其实是，这有点像经典的英雄之旅。
10:21
If you're familiar with Joseph Campbell or what's pretty much in every movie is,
如果你熟悉 Joseph Campbell，或者看看几乎每部电影里都有的东西，
10:26
it's kind of like we're all living that heroes journey.
这有点像我们都在经历那场英雄之旅。
10:29
You know, we're in the, you know, whether it's the call we're being called into some adventure action
你知道，我们正处在，你知道，不管是那个召唤，我们被召唤去踏上某种冒险行动，
10:32
or we're going through the threshold or whether we're turning back home
还是我们正穿过那道门槛，或者我们正转身回家
10:36
or trying to get back to our true self.
或者是在试着回到我们真实的自我。
10:38
There's all these kind of periods we go through.
我们会经历各种各样的阶段。
10:40
So as I dove deeper into it, I pulled a lot of my acting that I coaching I received.
所以当我更深入地去探索时，我调动了很多我表演方面的东西，还有我接受的教练指导。
10:46
I was fortunate to train with some of the top acting coaches in LA.
我很幸运能在 LA 跟一些顶尖的表演教练一起训练。
10:49
And then coaching, psychology, neuroscience.
然后是教练指导、心理学、神经科学。
10:52
I started trying to pull, extract different things from it.
我开始试着从中抽取、提炼不同的东西。
10:55
And what I really came up with is a three step process, which is own author and act.
而我真正总结出来的是一个三步流程：own、author 和 act。
11:00
You know, show up each day and own where you're at.
你知道，每天到场，并 own 你当下的状态。
11:03
Whether you like it or not or whether you're neutral on it, but own where you are in your journey.
不管你喜不喜欢，或者对此无感，都要接纳并掌控自己在这段旅程中的位置。
11:07
You know, look at ways that you can extract your learnings forward.
你知道，去找找有哪些方式能把你学到的东西提炼出来，带着往前走。
11:10
And then author this next chapter, this next phase for you.
然后为你自己书写下一章、下一个阶段。
11:13
It could be that week, that quarter, that next milestone,
可能是那一周、那个季度、下一个里程碑，
11:17
but learn to author it. And what I found in the coaching was a lot of times
但你要学会去书写它。而我在教练辅导中发现，很多时候
11:21
it required a little reframing of your story.
都需要稍微重新框定一下你的故事。
11:24
We had a founder, I think was in Daniel's cohort that I remember working with.
我们有一位创始人，我记得我跟她一起工作过，我想她是在 Daniel 的那一期里。
11:28
And she was, she didn't think she could be the CEO.
而她当时，嗯，她不觉得自己能当 CEO。
11:30
She was really like, she was really nervous.
她真的就是，她真的特别紧张。
11:32
She kept telling me every day in the first couple of weeks of the program.
在项目开始的头几周，她每天都跟我说。
11:35
I'm like, I really shouldn't be CEO. I don't think I can do this.
我就想，我真的不该当CEO。我觉得我做不到。
11:37
And she was from another country and she just had a lot of fear around it.
而且她来自另一个国家，对这件事就是特别害怕。
11:41
And again, as we dove deeper into the work, she just really needed
而且，随着我们更深入地推进这件事，她真的需要
11:46
to kind of reframe her story and where she was to that point.
去重新梳理一下自己的故事，以及她到那时为止所处的位置。
11:49
And what she started to realize is she gained a lot of confidence and saw
而她开始意识到的是，她收获了很多自信，也看到
11:53
that she could become CEO.
她可以成为CEO。
11:55
And so own author and act and act is the hardest thing because oftentimes
所以，自己做作者，去行动、去行动，是最难的事，因为很多时候
11:59
we don't step into that first action step as small as it may be.
我们不会迈出第一个行动步骤，不管它有多小。
12:02
We often let uncertainty get in the way.
我们常常让不确定性挡路。
12:05
One quick follow up on that, I'm curious, when you're saying that
关于这点，我快速追问一下，我很好奇，当你说
12:10
the notion of imposter syndrome came to mind.
我脑海里冒出了 imposter syndrome 这个概念。
12:15
Does that play into this process?
这会影响这个过程吗？
12:18
100%.
100%。
12:19
100%.
100%。
12:20
And I think imposter syndrome, I don't know one founder or pretty much anybody
而且我觉得，imposter syndrome 这东西，我不认识哪个创始人，或者说几乎任何人
12:24
who hasn't had gone through imposter syndrome.
是没经历过 imposter syndrome 的。
12:26
If you don't have imposter syndrome, there might be something wrong with you.
如果你没有 imposter syndrome，那你可能哪里有点不对劲。
12:29
That's my feeling.
我就是这么觉得的。
12:30
But I think the more you can embrace imposter syndrome and normalize it
但我觉得，你越是能接纳 imposter syndrome，并把它正常化
12:34
that this is going to happen.
觉得这就是会发生的。
12:35
I mean, if you're starting, if you're taking the risk to start a company
我是说，如果你刚起步，如果你在冒着风险创办一家公司
12:39
and going through the hell that it takes to become to be an entrepreneur,
还要经历成为创业者所必经的那种地狱般的磨难，
12:43
to be a founder because it is.
要当创始人，就是因为本来就是这样。
12:45
It's always like 10 times harder, longer, everything.
它总是会难上 10 倍、久上 10 倍，所有事情都是这样。
12:48
I'm sure Daniel's nodding over there because it's never easy.
我敢肯定 Daniel 在那边点头，因为这从来都不容易。
12:52
If it is easy, you probably just got lucky.
如果它容易，那你可能只是运气好。
12:54
You got a lottery ticket.
你拿到了一张彩票。
12:55
You got a lottery ticket or something.
你中了张彩票还是什么的。
12:57
But so embracing imposter syndrome and immediately recognizing that that's going
但所以，拥抱 imposter syndrome，并立刻意识到这会成为这段旅程的一部分，可能就是最好的应对方式。
13:02
to be part of the journey is probably the best way to approach it.
13:05
Yeah, I definitely resonate with that a ton.
嗯，我真的特别有同感。
13:09
And I want to get to each of these phases that you talked about
而且我想逐一聊聊你提到的这些阶段，
13:15
and tie it in also to our journey with AI.
也把它和我们与 AI 的旅程联系起来。
13:20
More generally, I think that would be really interesting.
更广泛地说，我觉得那会非常有意思。
13:23
However, before we do that, maybe just like maybe as framed as a simple question
不过，在我们开始之前，也许就把它当成一个简单的问题来问，
13:32
but I think there's a lot behind it.
但我觉得它背后有很多东西。
13:35
I guess my question is, why should people care about their own journey
我想我的问题是，为什么人们要在乎自己的旅程，
13:39
or expressing their own story at a high level?
或者从宏观层面去表达自己的故事？
13:45
What does that do maybe for the person and those in their environment?
那对这个人和他们周围的人会有什么作用呢？
13:52
Well, I would just say it simply is the one unique thing you know you have
嗯，我只想说，它其实就是你所拥有的那个独一无二的东西
13:56
is your story and your journey.
那就是你的故事和你的旅程。
13:59
And we often, you know, I saw a statistic the other day that we have 60,000 thoughts a day
而且我们经常，你知道，我前几天看到一个统计数据，说我们每天有 60,000 个想法
14:04
and I think 80% of them are negative.
而且我觉得其中 80% 都是负面的。
14:06
But learning to start shifting the mindset and realizing like with AI,
但学着开始转变心态，并意识到，就像面对 AI 一样，
14:11
I mean, everybody has their different perspectives on AI
我的意思是，每个人对 AI 都有不同的看法
14:15
and where it's going and how fast and what it's going to do.
以及它要走向哪里、速度有多快、会做什么。
14:18
But at the very least we can all probably much recognize it's very powerful.
但至少我们大概都能认识到它非常强大。
14:21
It's game changing.
它正在改变游戏规则。
14:22
We're at a pivotal moment in our in history.
我们正处在历史的一个关键时刻。
14:25
And so all the more reason for you to, you know, double down on yourself
所以这更加是你加倍投资自己的理由，你知道，
14:29
and figure out ways to evolve your submit to adapt, to personally grow,
想办法让你的……进化、去适应、去个人成长，
14:34
to become the leader you want to become, to, you know, embrace AI and use AI
去成为你想成为的领导者，去，你知道，拥抱 AI，使用 AI，
14:39
that's practical for you and no pun intended.
对你来说实用的方式，不是玩梗。
14:42
But basically use AI in a way that can help accelerate your personal growth,
但基本上，以一种能帮助你加速个人成长的方式去使用 AI，
14:47
you know, as leaders, as people, as family members,
你知道，作为领导者，作为一个人，作为家庭成员，
14:50
as a dad or a wife or a brother or sister, whoever.
作为爸爸、妻子、兄弟或姐妹，不管是谁。
14:54
I mean, it's, and that's the other big thing is once I found quickly with founders,
我的意思是，这，而且另一个很重要的事情是，我跟创始人打交道后很快就发现，
14:58
Daniel, I'm sure you can attest to this, is it quickly becomes,
Daniel，我相信你可以证实这一点，就是它很快就会变成，
15:01
it's hard to turn off like you're a founder and then you kind of come home
很难把它关掉，就像你是个创始人，然后你回到家
15:05
and you had to kind of turn it off.
然后你还得想办法把它关掉。
15:07
But eventually it all kind of becomes one and the same.
但最终，这一切多多少少都会变成同一回事。
15:10
The leader you are, the leader you are at work quickly,
你作为领导者的样子，你在工作中作为领导者的样子，很快，
15:13
you evolve to the leader you are at home and in your personal life.
你会逐渐成长为你在家里和个人生活中所展现出的那个领导者。
15:17
The more you can quickly align those two and learn to just become a leader,
你越能快速让这两者保持一致，并学会直接成为一个领导者，
15:23
except the fact that this is an identity I want to become in all aspects of my life,
除了这一点：这是我想在生活的所有方面都成为的一种身份，
15:28
I think is important.
我觉得这很重要。
15:30
In this world where content is being produced so quickly
在这个内容生产速度如此之快的世界里，
15:35
and people are being bombarded by so much,
而人们正被如此多的东西狂轰滥炸，
15:38
it's critical that for your website, for your brand, for your landing pages,
关键在于，对你的网站、你的品牌、你的 landing pages 来说，
15:43
you produce something that looks handcrafted,
你要做出看起来像是手工打造的东西，
15:47
but is still extremely fast to ship.
但上线速度仍然极快。
15:50
And our partner, Framer, is enabling just this.
而我们的合作伙伴 Framer，正是在让这件事成为可能。
15:54
Framer is the AI website builder that helps creators,
Framer 是一款 AI 网站构建工具，能帮助创作者、
15:58
teams, and businesses ship production ready sites faster than ever,
团队和企业以前所未有的速度上线 production ready 网站，
16:03
while getting every detail right.
同时把每个细节都做到位。
16:05
Prompt, inspect, edit, and publish in one place at a whole new pace.
Prompt、检查、编辑和发布，全都在同一个地方，以全新的节奏完成。
16:11
Learn how you can get more out of your site from a Framer specialist
从 Framer 专家那里了解如何让你的网站发挥更大价值，
16:15
or get started building for free today at framer.com slash practical AI,
或者今天就在 framer.com 斜杠 practical AI 免费开始搭建，
16:20
for 30% off a Framer Pro Annual Plan.
Framer Pro Annual Plan 可享 30% 折扣。
16:24
That's framer.com slash practical AI.
也就是 framer.com 斜杠 practical AI。
16:27
Rules and restrictions may apply.
可能适用相关规则和限制。
16:30
To read, you definitely have, you got me hooked on this.
说到阅读，你肯定有，你已经让我迷上这个了。
16:36
I'm curious and I think both Daniel and myself
我很好奇，而且我觉得 Daniel 和我自己
16:40
and others listening or watching the show,
以及其他在听或看这个节目的人，
16:44
we're probably using a set of tools.
我们可能都在用一套工具。
16:48
And to some degree, we're probably doing some of that.
而且在某种程度上，我们可能也在做其中的一些事情。
16:51
I'm guessing there were ideas as you were talking
我猜你刚才说的时候，有些想法
16:56
that were kind of resonating like I was kind of going,
让我有点共鸣，就像我在想，
16:59
well, I do this and I do that.
嗯，我会做这个，也会做那个。
17:01
And I think that's helped this obviously helps at work.
我觉得这确实有帮助，这显然对工作有帮助。
17:04
This thing has helped at home, as we're using different,
这东西在家里也帮上忙了，因为我们在用不同的、
17:08
different models and chats and all the things.
不同的 models 和 chats，还有各种东西。
17:13
And so agents these days, what are some of the things
所以现在的 agents，有哪些事情
17:17
like if you're trying to get focus now on developing narrative intelligence
比如，如果你现在正想把重点放在发展 narrative intelligence 上
17:22
and you want to use tools in a more focused way
而且你想更聚焦地使用工具
17:26
to help yourself develop your story as you've discussed,
来帮自己把你聊过的那个故事发展下去，
17:30
can you kind of focus me?
你能不能稍微帮我聚焦一下？
17:32
Can you kind of take me down a path on what that means
你能不能带我稍微理一理，那到底意味着什么
17:35
and like, you know, instead of me just kind of doing whatever
然后，就像，你知道的，与其我就那样随便做点什么
17:38
I'm doing it electrically, kind of give me a strategy.
我是在用电子方式做，算是给我一个策略吧。
17:42
Okay. Yes.
好。对。
17:43
And that's one of the hardest things, Chris.
而这正是最难的事情之一，Chris。
17:45
I think for all of us, one of the things I think I gravitated
我觉得，对我们所有人来说，有一件事让我被吸引到
17:48
in the coaching because I needed it for myself.
coaching 里，因为我自己也需要它。
17:50
I mean, you know, we get distracted and we were maybe excited
我是说，你知道，我们会分心，可能还会对某件事很兴奋，
17:53
about some personal development or some book or some growth
比如某个个人成长项目、某本书或者某种成长，
17:56
at one point and then we're quickly back off of that.
可到了某个时候，我们又很快从那上面退回来了。
17:59
So I, you know, what I found to be very helpful
所以，你知道，我发现非常有帮助的一点，
18:02
with coaching founders and even for myself is really getting focused
不管是给创始人做 coaching，还是对我自己来说，就是真正专注在
18:06
on your values, like really defining like what do you value?
你的价值观上，真正去定义，比如你到底看重什么？
18:10
And if you're working at a company like, you know,
而如果你在一家公司工作，比如说，你知道，
18:12
a technology company or whatever or you're a founder,
一家科技公司或者什么的，又或者你自己是创始人，
18:15
really establishing where can I align my personal values
真正弄清楚，我能在哪里把我的个人价值观
18:18
with the company values, you know, where,
和公司的价值观 align 起来，你知道，在哪儿，
18:20
because that alignment is everything.
因为这种 alignment 就是一切。
18:22
And it goes deeper into the why.
而且它会更深入地触及那个 why。
18:24
You know, we've all heard about the talks about the why,
你知道，我们都听过那些关于 why 的演讲，
18:26
but it really is true.
但事实真的就是这样。
18:28
I mean, yeah, you'd have to get to the what and how,
我是说，对，你得先弄清楚 what 和 how，
18:30
really with the why for your own personal why,
真的要从 why 出发，找到你自己个人的 why，
18:33
where you see yourself going, understand in the company why,
你觉得自己要往哪儿走，理解公司的 why，
18:37
wherever you're working, is hugely valuable because I think
不管你在哪里工作，这都非常有价值，因为我觉得
18:40
what that does is keep you focused back to your question
这样做的作用是让你重新聚焦回你那个问题，
18:43
about focus to keep you focused on how you're going to stay motivated,
关于专注，让你专注于你要如何保持动力，
18:47
how you're going to stay passionate.
如何保持热情。
18:49
You know, what is the purpose here?
你知道，这里的目的是什么？
18:51
What is the goal?
目标是什么？
18:52
So it's kind of like values is sort of the core foundation
所以这有点像，价值观算是那种核心基础
18:55
and then looking at the track to the outcome.
然后去看通往结果的那条路径。
18:58
And then work back from that.
然后再从那儿倒推。
18:59
Look, what outcome do does the company for C or what outcome
你看，公司预见到的是什么结果，或者
19:02
do I want in my personal life and then working back to what
我个人生活里想要什么结果，然后再倒推到
19:05
are those steps I can step into?
我能迈进去的那些步骤是什么？
19:07
So that's that's really been I think the best and the biggest thing
所以这真的，我觉得，一直是最好的，也是最大的一件事。
19:10
I found is just keeping it super simple and realistic
我发现，就是把它弄得超级简单、超级现实
19:13
because I can't tell me times I've done this personally
因为我数不清自己亲自这样做过多少次了
19:16
and and and just falling off and gone, oh gosh,
然后、然后、然后，就掉链子了、没影了，哦天哪，
19:19
you know, I set these goals and you know,
你知道的，我定了这些目标，然后你知道的，
19:21
it sounded great a January one, but you know,
在1月1号的时候听起来特别棒，但是你知道的，
19:24
my February one, I'm already like, what's going on here?
到了2月1号，我就已经想，这是咋回事？
19:27
I'm not doing hardly any of this stuff.
这些东西我几乎都没在做。
19:28
So just making a realistic that book,
所以就是要把那本书弄得现实一点，
19:30
Atomic Habits is one of my favorite books.
Atomic Habits 是我最喜欢的书之一。
19:33
A lot of people have read that, but that's a really great way
很多人都读过，但那真的是一个很棒的方式
19:36
to look at how you can be.
来看待你能成为什么样的人。
19:38
You compound yourself over the course of the year
你在一年当中让自己不断复利
19:41
with really small habits, you know.
通过一些非常小的习惯，你知道吧。
19:43
I've read the book.
我读过这本书。
19:44
So good.
太棒了。
19:45
Definitely, definitely a good one.
绝对，绝对是一本好书。
19:47
Danny, were you about to say something?
Danny，你刚才是想说点什么吗？
19:49
Yeah.
对。
19:50
Read, I think you kind of started out.
Read，我觉得你算是先开了个头。
19:53
You mentioned those three steps.
你提到了那三个步骤。
19:55
The first one was own.
第一个是 own。
19:57
I've been thinking about that as you and Chris
你和 Chris 在聊的时候，我一直在想这件事，
19:59
have been talking and it really resonated
你们一直在聊，而且它真的让我很有共鸣，
20:02
with me in relation to how myself and our team
尤其是联系到我自己和我们团队的情况。
20:06
and maybe how I've led in the adoption of AI on our team
还有可能是我在我们团队采用 AI 的过程中是怎么带头的
20:10
and I think where we have been blocked
而且我觉得我们在哪里一直被卡住
20:13
and maybe not aligned like you're talking about
以及也许并不像你说的那样对齐
20:16
to where we need to go with AI,
到我们在 AI 上需要走向哪里，
20:18
how we need to adopt those tools, which tools we adopt, etc.
我们需要怎么采用这些工具，采用哪些工具，等等。
20:22
It's been maybe when I've kind of led more,
可能是在我算是更多地带头的时候，
20:25
I've not owned where I am with the technology
我没有真正接受自己在技术上的现状
20:30
and what I don't know and what I'm comfortable with
以及我不懂什么，以及我对什么比较自在
20:34
or not comfortable with.
或者对此不太自在。
20:36
I've thought a lot over the past year about my own humility, right?
过去这一年，我想了很多关于我自己谦逊的问题，对吧？
20:40
Around like, oh, I have these certain code standards, right?
大概就是，哦，我有自己特定的 code standards，对吧？
20:43
Yeah.
是啊。
20:44
And our team and I have these standards
而且我和我们团队也有这些标准，
20:47
around how software development life cycle should happen, right?
关于 software development life cycle 应该怎么进行，对吧？
20:51
And I know in my pride or whatever that is
而且我知道，不管是出于我的骄傲还是别的什么，
20:56
that this is the way it should go.
事情就该是这样。
20:58
And I'm not really owning the reality
而且我并没有真正接受现实
21:02
of where the technology is and what's possible with it.
也就是这项技术现在处于什么位置、它能做到什么。
21:05
So let's say our company wants to get to this place
那假设我们公司想达到这种状态
21:10
like you're talking about,
就像你说的那样，
21:11
we have values that are important to us
我们有一些对我们来说很重要的价值观
21:13
and we have a mission of what we're trying to achieve.
而且我们有一个使命，就是我们想实现什么。
21:16
I'm actually a liability then towards that mission
那我对这个使命来说，其实就成了一个拖累
21:20
because I'm not acting out of humility or a real ownership
因为我做事并不是出于谦逊，也不是出于真正的担当。
21:25
of what the reality is.
关于现实究竟是什么。
21:27
Is that partially what you mean by that?
这是不是你说那话的部分意思？
21:29
It is.
是的。
21:30
It is.
是的。
21:31
Curious your reflection on that experience, I guess.
我猜我挺好奇你对那段经历有什么反思。
21:33
Yes.
是的。
21:34
Well, first of all, don't beat yourself up, Daniel.
嗯，首先，别太自责了，Daniel。
21:36
This is very common.
这非常常见。
21:37
And I think part of it is because you're the leader.
我觉得部分原因在于，你是领导者。
21:39
You're the CEOs.
你们是 CEO。
21:40
You're trying to show certainty.
你在努力展现出确定性。
21:42
You have a tremendous background and you're super smart.
你有非常厉害的背景，而且超级聪明。
21:46
But like, I think that really is it
但怎么说呢，我觉得真的就是这个原因。
21:48
because what I'm finding with teams right now,
因为我现在在团队身上看到的是，
21:50
we actually have one team I'm coaching,
其实我们有一个我正在辅导的团队，
21:52
it's an AI company, but we're calling it now
它是一家 AI 公司，不过我们现在就这么叫它了。
21:54
the ownership project because so much of these leaders,
the ownership project，因为这些领导者中有很多人，
21:57
I mean, you know how it is,
我是说，你懂的，事情就是这样，
21:58
when you're going from these early stages,
当你从这些早期阶段走过来的时候，
22:00
you're in survival mode for so much of it, right?
你很大一部分时间都处在生存模式中，对吧？
22:02
You're just trying to survive.
你就只是在努力活下去。
22:04
And then all of a sudden, you either hit that point
然后突然之间，你要么就到达了那个节点
22:07
where you're starting to grow revenue
开始让营收增长
22:09
and you get some investment
并且拿到一些投资
22:11
and now you're expected to really grow
而现在，大家期待你真正成长起来
22:13
and everybody's got to grow.
而且每个人都得成长。
22:14
A lot of these leaders,
这些领导者里有很多人，
22:15
some of them haven't been in leadership positions.
其中有些人以前从没担任过领导职位。
22:17
So everybody's now learning together.
所以现在大家都在一块儿学。
22:19
And I think what you pointed out
而且我觉得你指出的那一点
22:21
is really key for the CEO founder, especially,
对 CEO 创始人来说尤其关键，
22:24
is to be more open when they can about
就是在可以的时候，更开放地聊到
22:27
what they don't know.
他们不知道的事。
22:28
I can't tell me times.
我说不清有多少次了。
22:29
I think founders just naturally want to say,
我觉得创始人就是会自然而然想说，
22:32
hey, I've got to pretend like I know it all.
嘿，我得装作自己什么都懂。
22:34
You know, because they think that's the norm.
你知道，因为他们觉得那才是常态。
22:37
But really, when they can open up and say,
但其实，当他们能敞开心扉说，
22:39
hey, you know, this is an area I'm learning too.
嘿，你知道，这也是我正在学习的一个领域。
22:41
You know, so we can learn together.
你知道，这样我们可以一起学习。
22:43
I think can be very valuable as well.
我觉得这也可以很有价值。
22:45
So, yeah, ownership is such a big topic.
所以，是啊，ownership 真的是一个很大的话题。
22:48
Right now, I'm finding it coming up in almost every team
现在，我发现它几乎在每个团队里都会出现，
22:51
and group I'm coaching with.
以及我正在辅导的每个小组里。
22:52
Because also they need the rest of the team
因为同时他们也需要团队里的其他人
22:55
to take initiative.
主动去做事。
22:56
And, you know, whether it's AI tools they're learning
而且，你知道，不管是他们正在学的 AI tools
22:59
or anything that's happening,
还是任何正在发生的事情，
23:00
I mean, it's happening so fast that
我是说，这一切发生得太快了，以至于
23:02
whatever anybody can bring to the table
不管谁能拿出什么来
23:04
and share and move forward,
分享出来、一起往前推进，
23:06
they'll all the better, right?
他们都会更好，对吧？
23:07
It's no longer helpful to be siloed.
再搞 siloed 已经没好处了。
23:10
Yeah. Yeah.
是啊。是啊。
23:11
And do you think that that connects with
那你觉得，那是不是和
23:13
then let's say a person in like you're talking
然后，比如说，一个人，就像你说的
23:16
about people considering their roles,
关于人们思考自己的角色，
23:18
even if they're not, let's say the CEO
即使他们不是，比如说，CEO
23:20
or in that position, people are constantly being fed
或者不在那个位置上，人们也一直不断被灌输
23:25
like your role might not be here.
好像你的岗位可能就不在了。
23:28
You know, you need to adapt
你知道，你得适应
23:30
like all of these things.
所有这些事情。
23:32
And it's really hard to embrace that sort of reality.
而要接受这种现实真的很难。
23:37
I'm not saying it is the reality for everyone, right?
我不是说这对每个人来说都是现实，对吧？
23:40
But I don't know, that brings up emotions for sure
但我不知道，这肯定会勾起情绪
23:43
in terms of people's relationship to AI
从人们和 AI 的关系来看
23:46
and what it could mean.
以及这可能意味着什么。
23:48
That's a big part of it.
这是其中很大一部分。
23:49
And I think especially as you would know,
而且我觉得，尤其是你肯定也知道，
23:51
I think a lot of engineers, especially like, you know,
我觉得很多工程师，尤其像是，你知道，
23:53
and the day everybody was told, yeah,
还有那天所有人都被告知，对，
23:55
go learn how to code, you know?
去学怎么写 code，你知道吗？
23:57
And this is the path.
而这就是这条路。
23:58
This is like in for a lot of reasons it is.
这就像是，从很多方面来说，确实是这样。
24:01
It's such a great path.
这真是条很棒的路。
24:02
But now there's a lot of people now looking like,
但现在有很多人，现在都在想，
24:05
am I going to get replaced?
我会不会被取代？
24:06
And I think that's happening across most industries.
而且我觉得这在大多数行业都在发生。
24:09
I know with some of the people I'm talking to, like in Hollywood,
我知道，跟我聊过的一些人，比如在 Hollywood，
24:11
there's a guest I just had on Eric Shamlin.
我刚刚请来的一位嘉宾是 Eric Shamlin。
24:14
And he's kind of an expert around technology and AI
而且他算是个科技和 AI 方面的专家，
24:17
and Hollywood, all the studios and stuff.
还有 Hollywood，所有那些制片厂啊之类的。
24:19
And oh my god, like, yeah, it's amazing.
而且我的天，就，是啊，太厉害了。
24:22
You know, everybody thinks they're getting replaced.
你知道，大家都觉得自己要被取代了。
24:24
And so, yeah, I think for your role,
所以，是啊，我觉得对你这个角色来说，
24:26
it's going to be a lot of like your coaching,
会有很多那种，你的 coaching，
24:29
having the coach and manage and listen to people
去当教练、去管理、去倾听别人，
24:32
and really just kind of bring it back
然后真的就是把它带回来。
24:34
to what's practical right now in today's current time.
到当下这个时间点真正实用的东西。
24:38
Knowing that there's a lot can change.
要知道很多东西都可能变。
24:40
But what can you control right now?
但你现在能控制什么？
24:43
It's sort of the old like military.
这有点像以前军队里的那一套。
24:44
What can I control in this moment, you know?
此时此刻我能控制什么，你懂吧？
24:47
So I think that's really helpful.
所以我觉得这真的很有帮助。
24:49
But yeah, and really it's also requiring
但没错，而且说真的，这也要求
24:51
a lot of your teammates to start learning it,
你的很多队友开始去学它，
24:55
looking at ways that maybe they can wear another hat.
看看有没有什么方法，能让他们再扮演另一个角色。
24:57
And I know they're probably going, gosh, you know,
我知道他们可能会想，天哪，你知道，
24:59
I signed up for the startup.
我当初加入了这家 startup。
25:00
And I thought the role was this when I signed up
而且我当初加入的时候，以为这个角色就是这个样子的
25:02
and it's changed and I'm taking on all these roles.
结果它变了，我现在还得承担所有这些角色。
25:05
But that's also part of how you learn.
但这也是你学习的一部分。
25:08
I mean, one of the things I coach with some of the people
我是说，我跟一些人做辅导时，其中一件事
25:11
at MIT are considering two tracks.
就是 MIT 的那些人正在考虑两条路径。
25:13
Am I going to go try to interview and get a job
我是不是要去试着面试、找份工作
25:15
with Google, hopefully, or Facebook, or Meta, or whoever?
在 Google，但愿如此，或者 Facebook，或者 Meta，或者随便哪家？
25:19
Or, you know, do I want to start my own business
还是说，你知道的，我想自己创业
25:21
or go work for a startup for a while?
或者去一家 startup 干一段时间？
25:23
And that's one of the pros you try to get across
而这正是你想传达的好处之一
25:26
is like, you may not make as much money.
就是，你可能赚不了那么多钱。
25:28
There might not be as much certainty,
确定性可能也没那么高，
25:29
but guess what?
但你猜怎么着？
25:30
You can learn a lot quickly.
你可以很快学到很多东西。
25:32
You can take on a lot of different roles quickly.
你可以很快承担很多不同的角色。
25:35
So it's a great thing to understand as you're approaching that.
所以，在你朝那个方向走的时候，能理解这一点是件很棒的事。
25:40
I'd like to actually extend this,
其实我想把这一点再展开一下，
25:42
because you're actually going where I was going to ask you anyway.
因为你其实正说到我本来也要问你的地方。
25:45
And it's like we are in, for better or for worse,
而且就好像，不管好还是坏，
25:51
kind of the most fantastic moment in history,
我们正处在历史上最不可思议的时刻，
25:54
when things have changed and the notion of who we are
当事情已经改变，而“我们是谁”这个概念
26:00
and our identities are changing,
我们的身份在变化，
26:02
the work we're doing on a day-to-day basis,
我们每天做的工作，
26:04
how we get it done.
我们完成工作的方式。
26:05
I know speaking for myself,
就我自己来说，
26:07
I am with the new possibilities, you know,
我对这些新的可能性感到兴奋，你知道，
26:11
that the tooling creates.
这些工具带来的。
26:12
I'm more productive right now than I've ever been in my entire life.
我现在比这辈子任何时候都更有生产力。
26:15
Yeah.
是的。
26:16
And so, and I'm learning, I'm like,
所以，而且我也在学习，我就想，
26:19
I'm learning what to do with that.
我在学习该怎么处理这个。
26:21
Like, yeah, there's an adjustment of extra capacity.
就像，对，这里有个额外 capacity 的调整。
26:25
And so, you know, you mentioned about,
所以，你知道，你刚提到，
26:27
and startups, people will come in
还有 startups，人们会进来
26:29
and say, well, I came in on this role,
然后说，嗯，我当时是以这个 role 进来的，
26:31
but, you know, maybe it's time to pivot my role within the startup.
但是，你知道，也许是时候在 startup 内部 pivot 我的 role 了。
26:35
But I think that's happening in all organizations right now.
但我觉得，现在所有组织里都在发生这种事。
26:38
Yeah.
嗯。
26:39
You can have very large, well-established organizations
有些非常庞大、非常成熟的组织
26:43
that are having the same situation
也会遇到同样的情况
26:45
with the new capabilities coming in.
随着新的能力不断涌入。
26:47
And so, that is continuing to accelerate.
所以，这种趋势还在持续加速。
26:51
And so, given the fact that like our day-to-day reality
所以，考虑到我们的日常现实
26:57
is accelerating along this trend.
也在顺着这个趋势加速。
27:00
And therefore, it's not even the rate of learning being the same.
因此，这甚至已经不是学习速度是否相同的问题了。
27:04
You know, you don't have to learn tomorrow.
你知道，你不一定非得等到明天才学。
27:07
You have to learn more than you've learned today.
你得比今天学到的更多。
27:09
And the next day, you're going to have to learn more.
而到了第二天，你还得学更多。
27:11
And be more able to have a greater ability to pivot
并且要更有能力、更有本事去 pivot
27:15
in your own world.
在你自己的世界里。
27:16
Yes.
对。
27:17
How?
怎么做？
27:18
So, like, I love the framework that you've taken.
所以，那个，我特别喜欢你采用的这个 framework。
27:20
But I'm throwing this challenge at you
但我向你抛出这个挑战
27:22
for the folks that are out there.
也是给在外面的那些人。
27:25
As we're all living that, which obviously generates some
因为我们都在经历这些，而这显然会产生一些
27:27
of the fear that you've been talking about,
你一直在谈的那种恐惧，
27:29
how do you manage that in the process
在这个过程中，你是怎么应对的
27:31
as the acceleration continues?
当加速不断持续的时候？
27:33
Yeah.
是啊。
27:34
Because I'm certainly struggling with that in my own life.
因为我自己在生活中肯定也在为这件事挣扎。
27:38
Well, I understand, Chris.
嗯，我明白，Chris。
27:41
I feel like we're all, we all can relate to that.
我感觉我们所有人，我们都能对此感同身受。
27:44
And that's where, again, coming back to being human
而这正是，再一次，回到作为人本身
27:46
and trying to understand the meaning,
并试着去理解其中的意义，
27:48
all the meaning underneath all of this is key.
这一切背后的所有意义才是关键。
27:51
So that's where I think, like, those emotional
所以这就是我觉得，那些情感
27:53
and intelligent skills are so critical now.
和智能方面的能力现在如此关键的地方。
27:55
Now, more than ever, right?
现在比以往任何时候都更是如此，对吧？
27:57
How do I become more self-aware?
我怎样才能更有自我觉察？
27:58
How do I stay more present?
我怎样才能更活在当下？
28:00
How do I learn to self-regulate in situations
我怎样才能学会在某些情境里自我调节，
28:02
when there's fear everywhere?
当恐惧无处不在的时候？
28:04
There's distraction.
会有干扰。
28:05
There feels like the world's overwhelming.
感觉整个世界都让人不堪重负。
28:07
One day, you're up and excited,
有一天，你情绪高涨，很兴奋，
28:08
because you're working on,
因为你在做，
28:10
with collod or chat, chat, GPT and everything's like,
用 collod 或 ChatGPT 之类的，感觉就像，
28:13
oh, you're feeling great about yourself.
哦，你感觉自己特别棒。
28:14
And then the next minute, you feel like, oh gosh.
然后下一分钟，你又觉得，天哪。
28:16
I feel like I'm this small and I have no place here.
我觉得自己特别渺小，在这里没有立足之地。
28:19
So I think a lot of those skills are really important
所以我觉得，那些技能里有很多真的非常重要，
28:22
to develop.
需要去培养。
28:23
And I also think you mentioned identity.
而且我也觉得，你提到了 identity。
28:25
I think it's important to look at identity different.
我觉得，重要的是要换个角度看待 identity。
28:28
I mean, there's essence, right?
我是说，本质是存在的，对吧？
28:30
Who I am really am?
真正的我到底是谁？
28:31
Who you really are deep down?
你内心深处到底是谁？
28:33
Like, what makes you you?
到底是什么让你成为你？
28:34
But then there's identity.
但还有身份认同这回事。
28:35
And identity can involve.
而身份认同可以涉及。
28:37
And I think a lot of people don't try on enough identities
而且我觉得很多人并没有尝试足够多的身份
28:41
at times.
有时候。
28:42
So for example, I saw this quote the other day
所以举个例子，我前几天看到一句话
28:44
where somebody said, you know,
里面有人说，你知道的，
28:45
I never thought of myself as an athlete.
我从来没把自己当成运动员。
28:46
But I am starting to go to the gym three days a week.
但我开始一周去三天健身房了。
28:49
And I'm starting to do things.
而且我开始做起事情来了。
28:50
And it's like, I think I'm an athlete.
然后就会想，我觉得我是个运动员。
28:52
And I'm like, yeah, call yourself that.
我就想，对啊，你就这么叫自己呗。
28:54
And that's where I go back to like,
而这就是我又会绕回去的地方，就像，
28:56
if you can make leadership your identity,
如果你能把领导力变成自己的身份认同，
28:59
even if you're not the CEO at a company,
即使你不是一家公司的 CEO，
29:01
that's fine.
那也没关系。
29:02
Make yourself a leader and figure out like,
把自己变成一个领导者，然后想清楚，比如，
29:04
what steps I want to take to continuously evolve.
我想采取哪些步骤来不断进化。
29:07
But I guess to answer your question,
不过我想，要回答你的问题的话，
29:09
I really rely a lot on those emotional intelligence skills.
我真的非常依赖那些 emotional intelligence skills。
29:13
How do I, how do I show more empathy,
我要怎么，我要怎么才能表现出更多同理心，
29:16
ask more questions?
再多问些问题？
29:17
Listen, maybe if I'm really frustrated,
听着，也许如果我真的很沮丧，
29:19
or I don't agree with the person I'm working with,
或者我不同意跟我共事的人，
29:22
how can I respond rather than react?
我该怎么回应，而不是反应？
29:24
You know, sometimes you do have to react, right?
你知道，有时候你确实得反应，对吧？
29:26
You're just, you're going to step out in front on the street
你就是，你正要走到街上，
29:28
and you don't want to get hit by a bunch.
而你不想被一群人撞到。
29:30
You're going to react.
你就会反应。
29:31
But sometimes you can respond, right?
但有时候你可以回应，对吧？
29:33
You're maybe getting,
你可能正在得到，
29:34
you're not getting the answer you want,
你并没有得到你想要的答案，
29:36
or you're not reaching the objective you want in the conversation.
或者你在对话里没有达到你想要的目标。
29:39
But you can maybe take a step back
但也许你可以退一步，
29:41
and learn to respond differently.
学着用不同的方式回应。
29:43
Those are some of the things that I think
这些是我觉得
29:45
will be very, very valuable right now in work.
在现在的工作中会非常、非常有价值的一些事。
29:49
But it's, but it's scary.
但这，但这真的很吓人。
29:50
I'm not going to, I'm not going to say,
我不会，我不会说，
29:52
like everybody I'm coaching right now
就好像我现在在辅导的每个人
29:53
is pretty much in the same boat.
基本上都处在同样的处境。
29:54
We're all, everybody's kind of trying to figure it out.
我们所有人，大家都多少在试着搞清楚。
29:57
I love how Reed in this episode
我特别喜欢 Reed 在这一集里
29:59
is helping us understand narrative intelligence,
帮我们理解 narrative intelligence，
30:02
how we can keep up in this rapidly changing world of AI.
以及我们如何在这个快速变化的 AI 世界里跟上节奏。
30:07
And part of that is us as individuals,
而这其中的一部分，就是我们作为个人，
30:10
as leaders, as organizations taking ownership
作为领导者、作为组织，主动负起责任，
30:13
of where we are in our AI adoption and AI journey.
认清我们在 AI adoption 和 AI journey 上所处的位置。
30:17
And I see so frequently that organizations
而且我经常看到，很多组织
30:20
are not prepared for this next phase of autonomous agents,
还没有为 autonomous agents 的下一个阶段做好准备，
30:24
where organizations will have a fleet of agents
在那个阶段，组织会拥有一整队 agents，
30:27
operating with agency in company infrastructure
在公司 infrastructure 中带着 agency 运作，
30:31
with access to critical systems.
并能访问关键系统。
30:34
That's why I so privileged to be leading
这就是为什么我特别荣幸能带领
30:37
an amazing team of folks over at Prediction Guard.
Prediction Guard 那边一支超棒的团队。
30:40
I founded the company three and a half years ago.
我三年半前创立了这家公司。
30:43
And we provide an AI control plane that you run
而我们提供的是一个 AI control plane，你可以在
30:46
in your infrastructure to keep sovereign control
你自己的 infrastructure 里运行它，从而保持
30:49
over the agents operating in your infrastructure.
对你的 infrastructure 里运行的那些 agents 的 sovereign control。
30:52
You can manage the supply chain on which those agents operate,
你可以管理那些 agents 运行所依赖的 supply chain，
30:56
the scoping of what they can access.
以及它们能访问什么的 scoping。
30:58
You can institute runtime controls over the agent behavior.
你可以对 agent 行为施加 runtime controls。
31:02
And you have a full set of operational components
而且你有一整套 operational components，
31:05
that help you keep track of agents that have been quarantined,
能帮你追踪已经被隔离的 agent，
31:09
agents that have gone off script investigations
那些已经脱离 script 的 agent，还有
31:12
into agent behavior.
针对 agent 行为的调查。
31:14
I would encourage you to check out what we're doing
我鼓励你来看看我们在做什么
31:16
at PredictionGuard.com slash practical AI.
在 PredictionGuard.com slash practical AI。
31:20
Book a time with myself and the team
跟我本人和团队约个时间。
31:23
to help you understand what we're doing
帮你搞清楚我们到底在做什么
31:26
and really explore how you can adopt agents
并真正探索你要如何采用 agents
31:29
without losing control.
而不失去控制。
31:31
That's PredictionGuard.com slash practical AI.
那就是 PredictionGuard.com slash practical AI。
31:34
Again, PredictionGuard.com slash practical AI.
再说一遍，PredictionGuard.com slash practical AI。
31:40
Well, Reid, you started to go this direction
嗯，Reid，你开始往这个方向走了
31:43
which I'm really curious about this idea of identity
而我对身份这个概念真的很好奇
31:47
and the identities that we take on and the roles
以及我们承担的各种身份和角色
31:50
that we're trying to achieve in terms of outcome.
我们想要在结果上实现的东西。
31:56
And I think this brings up this tension
而我觉得这就引出了这种张力，
32:00
where people are trying to figure out
在这种张力下，人们正试图搞清楚
32:03
what is my uniquely human role within the world of AI?
在 AI 的世界里，我作为人类独有的角色到底是什么？
32:09
What is kind of preserved that artificial intelligence
有什么东西在某种程度上被保留下来，而 artificial intelligence
32:13
doesn't do and maybe narrative intelligence
不会去做，而也许 narrative intelligence
32:16
and other forms of my own identity and role does stay there.
以及我自己身份和角色的其他形式，确实会留在那里。
32:23
And I love that you're on coming from your background
而且我很喜欢你来上节目，从你的背景出发。
32:27
kind of through storytelling, through acting,
有点像通过讲故事、通过表演，
32:31
all of these things.
所有这些方式。
32:32
I love the Tolkien letter where he is talking about this idea
我很喜欢 Tolkien 的那封信，他在信里谈到这个想法
32:37
of as humans, we are sub-creators
也就是，作为人类，我们是 sub-creators
32:40
and we look around us
我们环顾四周
32:42
and this kind of ultimate beauty
而这种终极的美
32:45
is the sub-creation that we each are able to do.
就是我们每个人都能做到的 sub-creation。
32:49
I'm wondering in your mind,
我很好奇，在你看来，
32:51
what does that look like maybe even for yourself
那会是什么样子，也许甚至对你自己来说
32:55
as you're thinking about,
当你在想这些的时候，
32:57
like you're obviously entering into new ventures,
比如你显然正在开启新的事业，
33:00
you're doing new things with the podcast
你在播客上尝试新的东西，
33:02
and other things that you're working on right now.
以及你现在正在做的其他事情。
33:05
What is this idea of creation and creativity
这种关于创造和创造力的想法到底是什么
33:10
and the uniquely human element of that?
以及其中独属于人类的那一部分？
33:13
What does that mean to you now given everything that's happening with AI?
考虑到 AI 正在发生的这一切，现在这对你意味着什么？
33:17
Great question, Daniel.
好问题，Daniel。
33:19
I would say right now,
我会说，现在，
33:20
at first I was probably most people a little bit worried about what AI,
一开始，我可能和大多数人一样，对 AI 有点担心，
33:25
what does this mean for me and my identities I currently have?
这对我，以及我目前拥有的这些身份，意味着什么？
33:29
Now I look at it from a completely different lens.
现在我会从一个完全不同的视角来看待它。
33:32
I love that book.
我很喜欢那本书。
33:33
I don't know if you've read it by Rick Rubin,
我不知道你有没有读过 Rick Rubin 写的那本，
33:35
the creative act,
the creative act，
33:36
but like if you really start to think,
但怎么说呢，如果你真的开始想一想，
33:38
I step back from it,
我退一步来看，
33:39
it's never been better to be a creator,
现在当创作者，时机从来没有这么好过，
33:42
an innovator, a human, right?
当创新者，当一个人，对吧？
33:44
When you really think of the tools that are out there,
当你真的想想现在外面有的那些工具，
33:47
before there's so many different barriers to get there,
以前要达到那一步，有那么多不同的门槛，
33:51
whether you had to get a certain job,
不管是你得得到某份特定的工作，
33:53
maybe a certain school had to have the certain skills,
也许得上某所特定的学校，得具备某些特定的技能，
33:56
but now it's never been better to learn these things.
但现在学这些东西，时机再好不过了。
34:00
That's a great quote that you mentioned,
你提到的这句话很棒，
34:03
but I think of it right now as almost anything's possible.
不过我觉得现在几乎一切皆有可能。
34:07
That's a great feeling.
这种感觉真棒。
34:08
We'll have to be real back in at times,
有时候我们还是得回到现实中来，
34:10
but it's a great place to allow yourself to go creatively
但这正是个很棒的地方，能让你在创意上放开自己去发挥
34:13
and think like,
然后想，
34:14
who do I want to become?
我想成为什么样的人？
34:15
What do I want to do?
我想做什么？
34:16
What stories do I want to tell?
我想讲什么故事？
34:18
What things do I want to build?
我想打造什么？
34:19
What people do I want to work with?
我想和什么样的人一起工作？
34:21
I think it's now,
我觉得就是现在，
34:22
it's just a really awesome time
这真的是个特别棒的时刻，
34:25
to be in that, go back.
能身处其中，回去。
34:28
It's just a really great time to be a creator or an innovator.
现在真的是做创作者或创新者的绝佳时机。
34:32
Right now, when I think of the work I'm doing,
现在，当我想到我正在做的工作，
34:36
I look at it just every day as I'm learning.
我每天都把它看成是我在学习。
34:39
The more you can step into the growth mindset of,
你越能进入这种 growth mindset，也就是，
34:43
I want to be curious,
我想保持好奇，
34:45
I want to ask questions,
我想提问，
34:46
I want to be present,
我想活在当下，
34:47
and I just want to learn.
我就只是想学习。
34:48
You step into that every day as a learner.
你每天都以学习者的身份进入这种状态。
34:51
It's a great place to be because everything's changing
现在这个位置很棒，因为一切都在变化
34:54
in a way that we've never imagined before.
以我们以前从未想象过的方式。
34:56
So yeah.
所以，对。
34:57
Yeah, just anecdotally,
对，就随便讲个个人经历，
34:58
I don't know if this is revealing too much to our audience,
我不知道这是不是跟我们的听众透露太多了，
35:03
but I'm okay with being a little vulnerable.
但我可以接受稍微展现一点脆弱。
35:06
So this last weekend,
所以就在上个周末，
35:07
I was at the Indiana Bigfoot conference,
我去了 Indiana Bigfoot conference，
35:10
which was just amazing in every way.
这真是太棒了，方方面面都是。
35:13
I would highly recommend attending if you're in the area.
如果你在附近的话，我强烈推荐去参加。
35:17
This is for people with shoe sizes greater than 13, right?
这是给鞋码大于13号的人准备的，对吧？
35:21
Exactly.
没错。
35:22
Yeah.
是的。
35:23
So, I mean, just anecdotally though,
所以，我的意思是，只是随便说说啊，
35:25
I was there like,
我当时在那儿，就是，
35:26
so I went last year and I was there this year.
我去年去了，今年也去了。
35:30
And to hear the people there that were,
而且听到那里的那些人，他们当时是，
35:33
you know,
你知道，
35:34
whatever random subculture topic that that is
不管那是什么随机的亚文化话题
35:39
and they're into,
而且他们还特别迷这个，
35:41
the ways that they're thinking about applying AI
他们琢磨着怎么把 AI 应用起来的那些方式
35:44
to be creative to do their research
用来发挥创意、来做他们的研究
35:47
and explore this material
去探索这些材料
35:49
and like do this searching and like accumulate this
然后像这样去搜索，像这样去积累这些
35:52
and create maps and like do all these things.
还能做地图，就是做所有这些事情。
35:55
Like that all,
就像那一切，
35:56
even a year ago,
哪怕一年前，
35:58
like there was,
就像，有过，
35:59
you know,
你知道，
36:00
it was obviously fun and cool,
那显然很好玩、很酷，
36:02
but they weren't talking in that way about maybe
但他们没有用那种方式去谈，也许
36:05
some of the same possibilities with technology.
技术带来的一些同样的可能性。
36:08
And I know that's a very random thing,
我知道这听起来很随机，
36:10
but I think it connects with what you were saying
但我觉得这跟你刚才说的有联系，
36:13
that it's never,
那就是，从来都不会，
36:14
it's never better whether you're,
从来都不会更好，不管你是，
36:16
you know, a software engineer or you're a
你知道，一个 software engineer，还是
36:18
member of the Indiana Bigfoot research organization.
Indiana Bigfoot research organization 的成员。
36:22
Yeah.
对。
36:23
To be able to like think creatively
能够去那样创造性地思考
36:25
and apply,
然后应用，
36:26
you know,
你知道的，
36:27
what you're,
你是什么，
36:28
what you're,
你是什么，
36:29
I thought I knew you, man.
我还以为我了解你呢，哥们。
36:30
Yeah.
嗯。
36:31
Yeah.
嗯。
36:32
I thought I knew you.
我还以为我了解你。
36:33
Hey,
嘿，
36:34
and Daniel,
还有 Daniel，
36:35
you knew I produced a Bigfoot film, don't you?
你知道我制作过一部 Bigfoot 电影，对吧？
36:37
Oh, that's amazing.
哦，太棒了。
36:38
I didn't know.
我不知道。
36:39
Oh, man.
天哪。
36:40
I have to look at the credits.
我得去看看片尾字幕。
36:41
That one.
那部。
36:42
Yeah.
是啊。
36:43
So that was,
所以那算是，
36:44
I spent a lot of time around Bigfoot research.
我花了很多时间在 Bigfoot 研究上。
36:46
I wish we had the tools we have today.
我真希望当时就有我们现在这些工具。
36:47
Exactly.
没错。
36:48
I partnered with a guy named Eduardo Sanchez.
我和一个叫 Eduardo Sanchez 的人合作过。
36:51
He was,
他曾是，
36:52
he's the director creator of the Blair Witch Project.
他是 the Blair Witch Project 的导演兼创作者。
36:54
And he had this great,
而且他有一个特别棒的，
36:56
really great script for years.
特别棒的剧本，已经很多年了。
36:57
It was a big budget script
那是个大预算剧本，
36:59
that he was trying to get made,
他一直想把它拍出来，
37:00
had different attachments.
有过不同的 attachment。
37:01
Anyways, we decided at some point,
总之，我们后来某个时候决定，
37:02
just to like go do the,
干脆就去做那个，
37:04
the low budget version of it,
那个低预算版本。
37:05
to get it out there,
把它发出去，
37:06
because he was so passionate about Bigfoot.
因为他太痴迷 Bigfoot 了。
37:08
So yeah, I fell into that world for a while.
所以是啊，我有段时间也陷进了那个世界。
37:10
But to your point,
但就你说的这点来说，
37:11
all the more reason that,
这就更说明，
37:12
yeah, you can be a software engineer
是啊，你可以是个 software engineer，
37:13
and on the side,
然后在业余时间，
37:14
you can be a musician,
你也可以是个音乐人，
37:16
you can be a storyteller,
你可以当个讲故事的人，
37:17
you can create story worlds,
你可以创造故事世界，
37:18
you can be an author,
你可以当作家，
37:19
you can do whatever you want nowadays.
现在你想做什么都行。
37:21
And I think that's important to realize
而且我觉得，意识到这一点很重要
37:23
with these tools that are out there.
有了现在市面上这些工具。
37:24
I'm curious,
我很好奇，
37:25
is I,
是我，
37:26
is I circle around,
是我绕回来了，
37:27
kind of on the conversation?
算是回到这次对话上？
37:29
And I wanted to ask,
然后我想问，
37:31
there are a lot of people,
有很多人，
37:33
I think like,
我觉得就像，
37:34
certainly on,
当然在，
37:35
when you talk to the three of us,
当你跟我们三个聊的时候，
37:37
it's,
就是，
37:38
I think it's easy to get us
我觉得很容易让我们
37:40
onto this path.
走上这条路。
37:41
Yeah.
是的。
37:42
To do this.
来做这个。
37:43
You know, I was kind of like,
你知道，我当时有点像是，
37:44
hey, I'm kind of doing some things,
嘿，我在做一些事情，
37:46
but I need you to focus me and stuff.
但我需要你让我集中注意力之类的。
37:47
How,
How，
37:48
how do you get people in a harder sense?
那从更难的层面来说，你怎么触达这些人呢？
37:51
There's,
就是，
37:52
there was a whole world of people out there
外面有整整一大群人
37:54
who were feeling left behind.
他们觉得自己被落下了。
37:55
Yes.
是的。
37:56
And,
而且，
37:57
and they're not,
而且他们不是，
37:58
they're not doing AI podcasts,
他们不是做 AI 播客的，
37:59
or not listening to AI podcasts.
或者根本没在听 AI 播客。
38:00
Right.
对。
38:01
Or watching AI podcasts,
或者在看 AI 播客，
38:02
they're,
他们，
38:03
they,
他们，
38:04
and they are kind of grinding through the world
而他们差不多是在这个世界上摸爬滚打
38:06
as they have been doing their whole lives.
就像他们一辈子以来一直做的那样。
38:08
And,
而且，
38:09
and that,
而那个，
38:10
you know,
你知道，
38:11
I don't have data on this,
我没有这方面的数据，
38:12
but,
但是，
38:13
that's probably the majority of people out there.
那可能是大多数人。
38:14
Yeah.
是的。
38:15
And,
然后，
38:16
and how do you,
然后你怎么，
38:17
how do you get them?
你怎么让他们？
38:18
I,
我，
38:19
I don't imagine it's a,
我倒不觉得这是
38:20
it's a quick and super easy thing.
一件又快又超级简单的事。
38:21
No.
不。
38:22
But like,
但，就是，
38:23
how do you get them
你怎么让他们
38:24
to take the first step or two?
迈出第一步或第二步？
38:25
It's a weird question.
这是个奇怪的问题。
38:26
It's a weird question.
这是个奇怪的问题。
38:27
Where you're like,
你会说，
38:28
you know,
你知道，
38:29
because we have a future going forward here,
因为我们在这里还有未来要往前走，
38:30
and it's not just us.
而且不只是我们。
38:31
It is.
确实是。
38:32
Yeah.
对。
38:33
A whole lot of people in the masses.
大众里的很多人。
38:34
How do you,
你怎么，
38:35
how would you
你会怎么
38:36
recognizing it's all,
意识到这一切都是，
38:37
I'm,
我，
38:38
I'm asking a really hard challenge.
我是在问一个非常难的挑战。
38:39
I know that.
我知道。
38:40
Yeah.
是啊。
38:41
First,
首先，
38:42
how do you get people to say,
你怎么让人们说，
38:43
I'll take a first step into it,
我会先迈出第一步，走进它，
38:44
into a,
进入一个，
38:45
into a larger,
进入一个更大的，
38:46
different world.
不同的世界。
38:47
That's a great question.
这是个很好的问题。
38:48
Thanks for asking that, Chris.
谢谢你问这个，Chris。
38:49
And I,
而且我，
38:50
I say that because I feel like I'm living it with,
我这么说是因为我觉得我正在和……一起经历它，
38:52
not only family members,
不只是家人，
38:53
you know,
你知道的，
38:54
my parents,
我的父母，
38:55
or people that are even my age,
或者甚至是跟我同龄的人，
38:56
that maybe are in,
他们也许正处在，
38:57
you know,
你知道的，
38:58
like,
就是，
38:59
a group in Texas,
Texas 的一个小组，
39:00
and,
而且，
39:01
but even like,
但甚至，就是，
39:02
talking to different companies I'm coaching,
跟我在辅导的不同公司聊天，
39:04
like,
就是，
39:05
their,
他们的，
39:06
their customers are in manufacturing,
他们的客户在制造业，
39:07
or they're in,
或者他们住在，
39:08
you know,
你知道，
39:09
rural cities,
乡村城市，
39:10
they're a little bit,
他们有点，
39:11
they're so worried about it,
他们特别担心这件事，
39:12
maybe they're reading the news.
也许他们在看新闻。
39:13
And so,
所以，
39:14
I think one thing
我觉得有一件事
39:15
I found to work,
我发现能奏效的是，
39:16
just recently,
就在最近，
39:17
is make it super simple
就是把它做得超级简单
39:19
and practical
又实用，
39:20
that fits,
能契合，
39:21
integrates into their life,
融入他们的生活，
39:22
as it is.
就按现在这样。
39:23
So, for example,
所以，比如说，
39:24
you like to cook.
你喜欢做饭。
39:25
Is there a recipe
有没有一个食谱
39:26
you can come up with?
你能想出来的？
39:27
There's,
有，
39:28
is there a restaurant
有没有一家餐厅
39:29
you want to discover,
你想去发现的，
39:30
you know,
你知道的，
39:31
that you can kind of,
你可以算是，
39:32
easily get them into,
很容易让他们进入，
39:33
you know,
你知道，
39:34
asking questions,
问问题，
39:35
prompting,
prompting，
39:36
and then they start to get,
然后他们就开始懂了，
39:37
it's just like the,
这就像那个，
39:38
you know,
你知道，
39:39
the point being,
重点是，
39:40
is I think once,
是，我觉得，一旦，
39:41
they start to see it work for them,
他们开始看到它对他们有用了，
39:42
like the other day,
就像前几天，
39:43
or over the summer,
或者夏天那会儿，
39:44
we were planning a trip,
我们在计划一次旅行，
39:45
like a reunion trip,
像是一次重聚旅行，
39:47
and,
然后，
39:48
and anyways,
然后，总之，
39:49
my,
我的，
39:50
my parents are so,
我爸妈特别，
39:51
we're so afraid of AI,
我们特别害怕 AI，
39:52
and they're like,
然后他们就说，
39:53
oh, I don't like
哦，我不喜欢
39:54
what's going on in the world,
世界上正在发生的事，
39:55
and then we started doing this,
然后我们就开始做这个，
39:56
we started planning out this trip,
我们开始计划这趟旅行，
39:58
and within a matter of minutes,
就在几分钟之内，
40:00
we had like an itinerary
我们就有了一个类似行程表的东西，
40:01
of all the really cool places
上面列着所有特别酷的地方，
40:02
we wanted to do,
都是我们想去的，
40:03
and it just,
然后它就，
40:04
all this in the spark,
所有这些都源于那点火花，
40:05
their curiosity,
他们的好奇心，
40:06
they got creative,
他们就变得有创意了，
40:07
well, what if we asked this?
嗯，那要是我们这样问呢？
40:08
Can you ask it this question?
你能问它这个问题吗？
40:10
And before you know it,
不知不觉间，
40:11
you start to realize,
你开始意识到，
40:12
like, hey,
就像是，嘿，
40:13
it's, it's pretty simple,
这，这其实挺简单的，
40:14
at the end of the day,
说到底，
40:15
if you just want to start.
如果你只是想开始的话。
40:17
And so I think,
所以我觉得，
40:18
I think to answer your question,
我觉得，要回答你的问题，
40:19
the more you can ask questions to them,
你越能多问他们问题，
40:21
it kind of ties it back
这就会有点把它联系回
40:23
to what they're interested
他们感兴趣、
40:24
or motivated to do,
或者有动力去做的事情上，
40:25
the bet,
这个赌注，
40:26
that's what I've found to be better.
我发现这样会更好。
40:27
Good advice.
好建议。
40:28
Yeah, I love that.
是啊，我很喜欢这个。
40:29
I always recommend the same
我一直都推荐同样的做法，
40:31
for like technical people
像是技术人员
40:33
trying to get into it.
想入门的那种。
40:34
Maybe they're building
也许他们正在搭建
40:35
their first agent,
他们的第一个 agent，
40:36
they're like,
他们会说，
40:37
what do I do?
我该做什么？
40:38
My question is often,
我的问题常常是，
40:40
well, what are you interested in?
嗯，你对什么感兴趣？
40:41
Like is it,
比如说是，
40:42
you know,
你知道，
40:43
whatever,
随便什么，
40:44
trading crypto
做 crypto 交易
40:47
or like collecting,
还是像收藏之类的，
40:49
you know,
你知道的，
40:50
Pokemon car,
Pokemon car，
40:51
like create something
就像创造点东西，
40:52
that's related to the thing
跟那个东西相关的，
40:53
that you're passionate about,
那个你充满热情的东西，
40:54
great,
太好了，
40:55
and that's more useful.
而且那样更有用。
40:56
Bigfoot for this episode.
这集的 Bigfoot。
40:58
Exactly.
没错。
40:59
Yeah.
是啊。
41:00
Much research needed.
需要大量研究。
41:01
Are we going to find bigfoot
我们会找到 Bigfoot 吗
41:03
by the end of the week?
这周结束前？
41:04
I hope so.
希望如此。
41:06
You know,
你知道，
41:07
unless it's an interdimensional
除非它是跨维度的
41:09
being.
存在。
41:10
Yeah.
嗯。
41:11
And then probably not.
然后可能就不会吧。
41:12
But yeah,
不过，嗯，
41:15
this has been great read.
这真是很棒的阅读。
41:17
I want to maybe,
我想，也许，
41:18
like as we get closer to an end here,
就是，随着我们快到这里结尾了，
41:21
we often ask our guests,
我们经常会问我们的嘉宾，
41:23
kind of,
某种程度上，
41:24
as you look to the future,
当你展望未来的时候，
41:26
you know,
你知道，
41:27
that whatever time period
不管是什么时间段，
41:28
that makes sense in your mind,
在你脑子里觉得合理的，
41:30
you know,
你知道，
41:31
the next few months,
接下来几个月，
41:32
the next year,
接下来一年，
41:33
whatever that is.
不管那是什么。
41:34
What's kind of at the top
围绕这个话题，你现在大概最关注的是什么，
41:35
of your mind around it,
可能是你在这个领域正在思考的一系列挑战，
41:37
it could be a set of challenges
也可能是你特别想深入钻研、进一步探索的东西，
41:39
that you're thinking about in this area,
以及你觉得这些事情会往哪个方向发展，
41:42
it could be like something you're excited
41:44
to dig into and explore more,
41:47
where you see some of these things going,
41:50
does anything come to mind in terms of,
在……方面，有想到什么吗，
41:52
yeah, when you end the day,
是啊，当你结束一天的时候，
41:54
and you're thinking about those things
然后你在想那些事情
41:56
moving forward,
往前看，
41:57
what comes to mind?
你会想到什么？
41:58
Great question.
好问题。
41:59
I, you know,
我，你知道，
42:00
I think I'm a little bit of a dreamer,
我觉得我有点像个梦想家，
42:01
Dan,
Dan，
42:02
you know, I've always been,
你知道，我一直都是，
42:03
you know,
你知道，
42:04
I got into film,
我进入了电影这行，
42:06
was, I was sort of an introvert,
我，我当时算是有点内向，
42:08
and I, I was really into sports,
而且我，我当时真的很喜欢运动，
42:10
but I really wanted to, like,
但我真的很想，就是，
42:11
learn and express myself.
去学习，去表达自己。
42:12
So, I always come back to ways
所以，我总是会回到那些
42:14
that people can tell their story.
能让人们讲述自己故事的方式。
42:16
I,
我，
42:17
I envision a world,
我设想这样一个世界，
42:18
and I've,
而且我已经，
42:19
I've started to re-imagine
我已经开始重新构想
42:21
the brand I started called The Lesson,
我创办的那个品牌，叫 The Lesson，
42:23
which is really, like,
它其实，就像，
42:24
imagine, like,
想象一下，就像，
42:25
a world that almost felt like,
一个几乎感觉像是，
42:26
you know,
你知道，
42:27
you could tap into people's stories
你可以深入了解人们的故事
42:29
and lives,
和生活，
42:30
almost like you do a Netflix show,
几乎就像你看 Netflix 剧一样，
42:31
or whatever,
或者随便什么，
42:32
it doesn't have to be necessary
它不一定非得是必要的
42:33
in the film form,
在电影这种形式里，
42:34
but imagine ways that we can connect,
但想象一下我们可以连接的方式，
42:36
we can tell stories,
我们可以讲故事，
42:37
we can become, you know,
我们可以变成，你知道，
42:39
again, these different identities
再次，这些不同的身份，
42:41
in a way that becomes,
以一种方式，它变得，
42:42
it's just really beautiful and rich
真的非常美、非常丰富，
42:44
to see,
看着这一切，
42:45
and to refill kind of part of something bigger
而且去重新填充，算是某种更大事物的一部分
42:47
and as a whole,
而且从整体来看，
42:48
and I,
而我，
42:49
and I say that only,
我这么说也只是，
42:50
I hope that's a world that we can get to,
我希望那是我们能到达的一个世界，
42:52
but it's certainly
但这肯定
42:53
with the tools that are out there right now.
靠着现在已有的那些工具。
42:55
It certainly seems like
这看起来确实像是
42:56
there will be some extraordinary ways
将来会有一些非同寻常的方式
42:59
to, you know,
来，你知道，
43:00
lift humanity
提升人类
43:02
in the future,
在未来，
43:03
and it might be a lot here
而且这里可能会有很多
43:04
a lot sooner than we think,
比我们想象的要早得多，
43:05
so I go back to your answer question,
所以我又回到你回答的问题，
43:07
I go back to a lot of the dreams
我又回到很多那些梦想
43:09
and sort of vision
还有某种愿景
43:12
I had around storytelling
是我围绕讲故事
43:13
and how to move people.
以及如何打动人心所抱有的。
43:15
That's great.
那太好了。
43:16
Well, I,
嗯，我，
43:17
I hope to have you back on the show
我希望还能请你回到节目里
43:19
in the future
以后
43:20
to talk through all of those things
好好聊聊所有这些事情
43:22
and,
而且，
43:23
as you've highlighted,
就像你强调的那样，
43:24
things will look different
事情会变得不一样，
43:25
in the future than we can even predict
在未来，甚至会超出我们能预测的范围，
43:27
and not something to be afraid of,
而且这不是什么需要害怕的事，
43:29
but something to lean into
而是值得主动拥抱的事，
43:31
and, you know,
而且，你知道，
43:32
make, make part of your story,
让，让它成为你故事的一部分，
43:34
so, so happy that you could join us
真的特别开心你能来跟我们一起
43:36
and share that with us.
还跟我们分享这些。
43:37
Thanks for joining, Reed.
谢谢你来参加，Reed。
43:38
Thank you so much, Daniel.
太感谢你了，Daniel。
43:39
Thank you, Chris.
谢谢你，Chris。
43:40
I really appreciate it.
我真的很感激。
43:41
Thank you.
谢谢。
43:42
All right,
好的，
43:48
that's our show for this week.
这周我们的节目就到这里。
43:50
If you haven't checked out our website,
如果你还没看过我们的网站，
43:52
head to practicalai.fm
可以去 practicalai.fm
43:54
and be sure to connect
也别忘了在 LinkedIn、
43:55
with us on LinkedIn,
X 或 Blue Sky 上
43:56
X, or Blue Sky.
和我们联系。
43:57
You'll see us posting insights
你会看到我们发布
43:59
related to the latest AI developments,
和最新 AI 进展相关的见解，
44:01
and we would love
我们也很希望
44:02
for you to join the conversation.
你能加入这场对话。
44:04
Thanks to our partner,
感谢我们的合作伙伴，
44:05
Prediction Guard,
Prediction Guard，
44:06
for providing operational support for the show.
为节目提供运营支持。
44:08
Check them out at PredictionGuard.com.
去 PredictionGuard.com 看看吧。
44:11
Also, thanks to Breakmaster Cylinder
另外，也感谢 Breakmaster Cylinder
44:13
for the Beats,
带来的 Beats，
44:14
and to you for listening.
也谢谢你的收听。
44:15
That's all for now.
这次就到这里。
44:16
But you'll hear from us again next week.
不过下周你还会听到我们。